MASSEY HARRIS Type 1 Hit and Miss Engine Runs Good ! Start Price USD 5,475.00 Current Price USD 5,475.00 Time Left - Bid Count 0 Buy It Now Price - Reserve Price - Start Time Saturday, November 15, 2008 End Time Monday, December 08, 2008 Location Scioto Mills, IL See more about 'MASSEY HARRIS Type 1 Hit and Miss Engine Runs Good ! ' Description As this has been re-listed for 23 days with No Offers as of yet, coupled with the fact that I would really prefer to keep it anyway, Now that I have a job again after 18 1/2 months with No Income, I am ENDING THIS LISTING AS OF NOW. Thank you to the 8 people that did at least bid on it the first time through, but since there doesn't seem to be any more interest in other than Lookers, I will Gladly Keep It Myself.  I was debating whether to let it run the full 30 days or not, but as I stated already in Both Listings I didn't want to part with it if I didn't have to as I will never be able to replace it.  Looks Like I Get To Keep It Afterall. I didn't want to just end the auction without letting the WATCHER's know why, or if I sold it privately or anything, so this is the Notice as to why it ended early. Relisted as Buy It Now ONLY No Bidding.  Buy it now price cut almost in half ! MASSEY - HARRIS  TYPE 1 or Style No. 1 as it's called in C. H. Wendel's book, with Webster tripolar mag. Older Restoration by one of the previous owners ,  all I did after I bought it was clean and adjust the ignitor points and play with the speed adjusters a little to get it running better .  It is a nice smooth running engine even after setting for the last 10 years.  I never got around to making a new adjusting screw or rod for the spring tension on the govenor ,  but have it temporarily set up with a combination of small springs with varying tensions that have been working OK so far .  A short piece of threaded rod and a spring is all it needs.  The guy I bought it from just had a rubber band hooked to it to show me it ran before I bought it .   I don't know if the colors are right on this ,  and without very many of them out there to compair it to  , it's hard to say .   I included the last picture showing one I found at the Mount Pleasant Iowa show last year that is painted a slightly darker shade of red with green flywheels where this one has the flywheels and belt pulley done in yellow ,  but it's not that big a deal to repaint something . The new issue of Gas Engine Magazine I just got shows that the next issue is going to have an article on the Type 1 Massey engines that hopefully will shed more light on the subject. Note: Thanks to a helpful eBayer I was told that the flywheels should be green as seen in the last picture of a different engine, with the whole engine being painted red and then the green being painted over the red and often worn off showing the red underneath. That wouldn't be too hard to remedy in a few hours.  Who ever painted this must have used the later Massey Harris tractor colors of red & yellow. Still I nice looking engine though, and I might have done the same. Belt pulley has an old blacksmith made extension rim on it with several straps riveted to the inside holding it to the original pulley .  The guy I got it from said he would likely remove it if he kept the engine ,  (so I don't think he did the restoration either),  but personally I think it adds character to an already neat looking engine .  It's an old time repair or modification giving it a wider pulley face in a manner you seldom see any more .   I would much rather look at something like that than a modern weld job .  It is Missing the Crank Guard ,  but that would be relatively easy to fabricate until you find an original to replace it with or borrow to use as a foundry pattern. Note:   As per what I was told from a very helpful eBay member the first time I listed this, the ID Tag would also have been on the crank guard, but he did confirm it would be the 3HP and told me where to look for serial number which turned out to be No. P2651 , being the 1651st or 1652nd one made this size depending on whether 1000 was the first number, or 1001 was the first number.  The Kind eBay'er told me the higher the number the closer to the 1923 build date, but didn't say how high they went.  I would think the P2651 would still be in the early years though.  He also told me where to look for any damage with the most likely  area's being valve cages and carburator. The upper valve cage looks like it  MIGHT  have a repair on it that could have used a little more grinding to clean up before painting, but it's not that bad a job on it.  Should be able to see the repair in the 7th picture.  It might just be a bubble in the paint too, now that I look at it closer as seen in the replaced 8th picture for a closeup view. Carburator looks good,  and as near as I can tell the lower valve cage is good as well, but I will take a closer look at that and list any problems I find with it. Note:  More info from someone who knows :  The serial number and the MH casting marks indicate that this was made in CANADA closer to the 1923 build date.  Apparently they did start closer to #1 with the the 1000 mark being near the timeframe when they moved from Binghampton NY to Weston, Ontario, Canada in 1916.  The Deyo  Macey's and any Massey Harris owned ones made in New York apparently didn't have the MH castings.  He also stated that he hasn't seen any number over 3000 yet.  If that was the total production from 1910 in NY to 1923 in Canada, then there were less of these produced in a 13 year run than what the more common manufactures made in a single year, with 1000 made from 1910 to 1916 and 2000 or less made from 1916 to 1923 .   If I'm reading the numbers right, Stover made over 16,000 engines in 1919 alone and were still making over 11,000 a year in 1936 .  I'm sure John Deere , International , and others had similar outputs. 3,000 total in 13 years would make for a scarce engine if I'm interpreting that right. There's a rod that runs down through the carburator that I think is supposed to be a choke mechanism, that is stuck fast .  I don't know if previous owner painted it stuck , or failed to get it free'd up before painting ,  but in either case ,  it starts and runs just fine with it where it is .    I uncovered it somewhat from 10+ years of being buried in my shed , everything was still free on it (other than the fore mentioned choke rod), I filled a pop can with gas and stuck the fuel line down in it ,  and on the third or fourth turn it was up and running ,  coasting three to five times before firing again at the speed I have had it set for years ago !  Not bad for the first try on a 40 degree day after setting untouched for over ten years !  Note:  I was also told that the 'stuck' rod in the carburator is indeed the choke, which would be pulled up to start and then dropped down when running, and that most people simple 'muffle' the carb with their hand to start them anyway.   I didn't even do that when I started it for the first time in 10+ years on a 40 degree day..... if I had maybe it would have started on the first or second turn instead of the third or fourth. I was also told to check the round plate under the cylinder for cracks, and found None.... I replaced a couple of my pictures with one showing that plate and one showing a closeup of the upper valve cage, which may have a weld repair or just a raised knot in the casting or a bubble in the paint ?  Thanks again to a very helpful eBay member from Canada. I'm sure with some fine tuning and playing with it you could get it much slower .  Gas tank is in the base ,  but not knowing how clean it is ,  I never put any gas in it .  The few times I ran it at the Darlington Wisconsin show and at Freeport Illinois maybe 10 years ago I just ran it with gas in a pop can.   Running the Saw Mill at the Stephenson County Antique Engine Club's show in Freeport I never really have time to play with the engines so I end up leaving them home every year.  I had forgotten until I had it running again last week before listing the first time ,  but there is a slightly annoying clanking noise that is either the govenor weight bouncing back against the flywheel hub or maybe just the hand crank handle bouncing in & out of the flywheel rim running at low speed.  I think the govenor's on these are supposed to have springs pulling both directions kind of counterbalancing each other with one being a little bit stronger so the govenor work properly and the other weaker one controlling the bounce back, if that makes any sense the way I worded it. If it's the crank handle making the noise, I don't know for sure if there should be mouse trap type spring to hold that in or if it's just centrifugal force that keeps them tucked away in the flywheel. In either case, maybe a little dab of silicone for a small rubber bumper would quiet things down too. Or it may just be something I hear, that others may not ? According to Wendel's book Massey Harris bought out Deyo-Macey in New York in 1910 and made engines there until 1916 when they moved production to Toronto, Ontario. It doesn't say when production ended on the Type 1 , but indicates that the Type 2 showed up around 1923, so this could be anywhere from 1910 to maybe upwards of 1923 vintage, having been made in either the United States or Canada ? Pretty much every part on it has the MH letters cast on it, so it is Massey - Harris and Not the Deyo - Macey.   I was told when I bought it that it is a 3 Horse Power, which I'm guessing is probably right. There's no tag on it, but Wendel states they were made in 1 1/2 , 3 ,  4 1/2 , 6 , 8 , 12 , 15 , and 20 HP.  I didn't measure the Bore & Stroke while I was out in the building, but the flywheels are heavy 24 inchers.  It's too big to be a 1 1/2 and I think just a little small for a 4 1/2, so it's most like the 3 horse, which was pretty much confirmed by the helpful eBay member that told me where to find the serial #. I apologize for the cluttered pictures ,  but if this doesn't sell ,  it will stay where it is for a while yet ,  so I just cleaned some of the stuff off of it ,  but didn't clear a path to get it outside for better pictures .   I would really prefer not to part with this one ,  as it one the rarest engines I will probably ever own ,  but 18 Months with no paycheck ,  something's got to go other than just the small stuff I've been trying to sell .  I'm not going to give it away though , I did lower my reserve on it to a low $2900.00 after getting bid up a ways and hoped for the best, but then the bidding stopped where it was anyway. With the outrageous listing fee's involved with putting a reserve on it, I decided to try it as a buy it now only this time through. Auction Format forced me to pay money up front that I really couldn't afford at this time.  Buy It Now Format allows a lower listing fee up front, but they will nail me big time if it sells. Between the two it just means that much more I have invested in it and that much more I will need out of it.  I put the new "B-I-N" price part way between my original reserve and my original (high) buy it now price that I was hoping some one would have clicked on, even though it was a bit high. As it didn't sell in the auction format ( in time to do me any good with my bills,)  I'm not going to waste my time taking bids on it.  It will either sell this way at my price, or it won't sell at all, and I get to keep it.   I would Still hope maybe someone local might buy it and maybe give me a chance to buy it back at a later date once I get back on my feet again ,  but Money Talks !  If it leaves the area , it's adios , goodby !  I may consider Offers on it, but they will have to be higher than my original $3210.00 reserve plus the extra fee's I got nailed with already, so don't waste my time with low ball offers.  I have other stuff I would rather let go than this anyway. There are No cracks breaks or welds on it that I know of , other than the upper valve cage which I found after being told to look there .   If anyone knows where else these particular engines would most likely be damaged if they were, I will give it a closer look and try to answer any questions as best I can. Considering what the two most common engines in America ( maytag & john deere ) have been going for ,  and watching many other engines over the years ,  I don't think I was out of line at all with my reserve or buy it now prices ,  actually I think they were low for what this is .  My current 1/2 price Buy It Now should have this sold in a heart beat even with the lousy economy.  While it may not be a sideshaft with all the bells and whistles ,  it is a very unique looking engine with the notched out water hopper for intake valve clearance ,  the long updraft carburator , pendulum style govenor weight  ,  and the long 'walking beam' style exhaust rocker arm..... again ,  I really hate to part with this one ,  but Money talks . This is listed as Local Pickup Only ,  but there is a small chance I might be able to have a friend help deliver it within a reasonable distance .  I need it paid for ASAP after the auction ends though ,  or it does me no good to sell it .   I can store it through the winter if need be ,  but it still needs to be paid for up front .  I've never tried shipping anything by truck yet ,  but if buyer wants to arrange for truck delivery I can get it into a local moving and storage facility where it can be loaded for dock to dock shipping .   I think they go more by size than weight with the semi's .   I would have to make up a small shipping crate for it ,  which I'm guessing would be around 3x4x3h at your expense ,  but I'm sure $50.00 would cover it .  I have no idea what shipping fee's would be on it ,  plus it would likely very with locations , zones , etc.  I know several people that go to Portland , Waukee , and other swap meets that I might be able to arrange delivery to one of those ,  but I would need to check with them first .  And again ,  this would need to be paid for at the end of the auction .  If I sell it now and don't get paid for it till next summer ,  it does me no good to sell it .  I can store it for free for a little while ,  but it would be at your own risk if anything happened to it ,  as I don't know if my insurance would cover someone elses property in my building or not .   It's been setting in the same spot for several years without any problems though .  It is selling AS IS , Where Is , with No Refunds or returns , other than as I stated , that if it sells locally ,  I would like the chance to maybe buy it back at a future date if I can manage it then .  It is a nice desirable engine ,  in good running condition ,  but there are No Guarantee's given or implied .  Old Iron can be fragile !  If something falls on it or it falls off your truck or trailer ,  or for some reason you just decide you don't want it after all ,  it's still yours untill you find someone else to sell it to .  I didn't do the restoration on it so I don't know what all was done or not done on it ,  if it was rusty and stuck or if there may be original paint underneath the current paint job .  All I know is it's a rare engine ,  it has good compression ,  and it starts & runs good even in cold weather !   It is mounted on wooden skids ,  No Cart .  Payment to be in U.S. Currency through Paypal as per ebay's new policy, or CASH with local pickup. If arranging to pickup later, it still needs to be paid for now at the end of the auction.  I would try arrange to deliver it myself , but my truck is on it's last leg with intermittent transmission problems, so I don't trust it going very far from home. Friends truck is a little better , but not much .  He knows other people that travel more ,  so we might be able to work out some kind of delivery ,  but at this time it would be best to figure it as Pick Up only .  If you want to wait till next spring or summer to pick up , I can store it till then.  If you would like I can deliver it to the Stephenson County Antique Engine Club's Threshing show late next summer and you can pick it up at the saw mill ,  or I can give you the dates that our museum and railroad are open and you can meet me there to pick it up, but it still needs to be paid for at the end of auction. Thanks For Looking, and Happy Bidding ! Please also checkout my other auctions as I get time to list them. I may list a 4 HP Stover engine and maybe a 5HP Monitor HJ on a saw rig later on, along with more engine cart wheels, vintage car parts & accessories, toys & games, tools & gages, etc. etc. etc.   If I get real desperate I might list my 1937 Ford Truck with original Flat Head V8 and older frame off restoration, but that's another one I would prefer to keep as long as I can. Place a Bid!